Discussing
A Christian Nation?

Just a heads up that the Anglican church and the Westminster government has jurisdiction over Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales; each one with a distinct cultural identity and growing political authority. Calling the whole of the UK England is like calling the whole of the US Washington.

But I wholeheartedly agree that God's nation is the Church.

The Westminster government has jurisdiction over Scotland, but the official Church of Scotland is, and has been since Mary Queen of Scots, Presbyterian. (I know, Mary was Catholic, and the Pope wanted her to repress the Presbyterians as her cousin Mary Tudor repressed the Anglicans, but she didn't have the political leverage to do so.) Wales, while nominally under the Anglican Church, is predominantly Methodist or Calvinistic Methodist -- which starts to point out why an established church is foolish. Oh, and the most die-hard Protestants in Northern Ireland are Presbyterian too, much to the embarrassment of their more liberal coreligionists in the USA. Church is a matter of conscience, which cannot be redirected by the fiat of the state, whether monarchy or republic.

yes i believe that when Jesus came and encacted a new covenant, the geo-political framework of God for His people has dramatically changed. that all nations are now under the claim of Jesus as His own and that He has called His followers to spread His saving work and person to all who have predestined to be citizens in His kingdom. but part of that calling is for us to make an impact on the particular country and community we are in to be salt and light.

i live in the philippines where the church has considerable influence on the political stage but unfortunately this has not effected any positive change aside from being bedfellows for mutual gain.

the most essential work we can do to have an influence is to share the Gospel in words and deeds and to give the impression of the hope that one day all will be made new completely through Jesus Christ the Lord of Nations.

There is no separation between church and state in England, which is similar to Norway, Argentina, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Liechtenstein, Malta, Monaco, Peru, Armenia, Cyprus,
Georgia, Greece, Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway and Finland. They all have state churches and are officially Christian. That’s not an exhaustive list and this is just the Christian nations (Roman Catholic, Anglican, Orthodox, Lutheran, etc.)

The irony is that the world (especially the middle east) considers America a Christian nation (or the Christian nation), which it constitutionally is definitely not. However it is the nation with the most self-identified Christians by far (224,457,000) and has a higher level of church attendance than any other country which is "at a comparable level of development." This compares with 16% in Britain, 14% in France and 13% in Germany. So much for the efficacy of the Christian State in gauranteeing the spiritual health of its citizens!

America was founded by very active Christian sects wanting to escape persecution in Europe. America also sends out the most missionaries by far than any other nation. Our laws were based on Judeo-Christian concepts and “In God We Trust” is printed on all of our money. I don’t think we have ever had a president who did not consider himself a Christian. So is it any wonder that many Americans and most of the world refers to America, for good or for ill, as a Christian nation. But if you really wanted to get technical, only 7% of Americans consider themselves as “Born again”.

I tire of people who always have to jump in any discussion like this to cite the Indian wars or the Iraq war as incontrovertible proof that somehow America is not a Christian nation. Is Iran any less a Muslim nation because it oppresses its neighbors, or is Iraq not a Muslim nation when it commits genocide on the Kurds? They are Muslim nations who are behaving badly and not living up to the Koran, but Muslim nonetheless.

But I agree, no particular state can make the claim that they are God’s nation or “the Christian nation” in the sense that Israel could in the Old Testament. The body of Christ is a trans-national community and our citizenship is in Heavan. Yet God still holds nations, not just people, accountable to a moral standard. The Bible, Old and New Testament, is like a geo-political soup brimming with references to God’s dealing with nations. There are 625 references to nations in the Bible. Jesus divides the nations into goat nations and sheep nations depending on how they have treated Israel. Nations will continue and be reconstituted on the new earth after the millenium. So I still believe we have a mandate to call our particular nation to repentance, we will be judged nationally by God in the Judgement period.

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself" Phil 3:20-21 (ESV).
Nowhere in the New Testament do I see Jesus or his followers calling for the establishment of a "Christian nation." Jesus said that his kingdom isn't of this world (John 18:36). In the above quote by Paul, our citizenship is not defined along national lines - we are declared to be citizens of heaven. My standing with God is not associated with any national religion or lack of religion. I'm not a Christian because I live in a "Christian nation." I'm a Christian because I've put my trust in Christ. So rather than define myself as an American Christian, I think it is more right to say I am a Christian who lives in America. I belong to a kingdom that's out of this world, meaning this world is not my home but a stop along my journey into the true nation to which I belong.