Discussing
Q&A Brent Laytham

Nathan Bierma

Marc
April 21, 2009

Ooh I'd be interested to hear about the God who doesn't demand blood. As far as I can tell, our God, unfortunately, does :-(

Nbierma
April 21, 2009

then you'll be interested to read Chapter 2!

John
April 21, 2009

You know in the old testament how wars were fought and how God did not tolerate many things we humans did, water comes to mind for me. Then in the new testament things changed a little and his son came and said we needed more love and kindness, that grace and faith would get us through to home and of course we have the choice to do what we want. I believe many took that literally and have turn things around to fit their agenda. Trust me his agenda should be our agenda and we should follow it as much as we can. He gave us the rules to obey, not to do with them as we want. I do believe he is all those things above and maybe more. Trust in God, I do and you will get to thank him later. In God's Grace John

Rick
April 21, 2009

I just finished reading the Pentateuch and God sure does demand blood. Jesus is the lamb who was slain before the foundations of the world. Laytham and Daniel Bell are talking about a particular theory of the atonement that is very popular among non-evangelical, more liberal theologians uncomfortable with the cross and dedicated to non-violence. <br><br>Evangelical Christians pretty much hold to the Substitutionary Penalty of the atonement (Jesus bore our penalty in our place). The Ransom theory (Christ ransomed us from Satan) and the Governmental theory (God’s moral order must be upheld) are closely related to the substitutionary theory. But a theory has become very popular among those who are uneasy with the blood sacrifices of the old testament and the judgement for sinners in the New Testament. This is called the Moral Influence theory. Daniel Bell holds that there is no redemption in the sacrifice of the blood of Christ. The heart of Bell’s argument is his explanation of how “Christ’s work on the cross is nothing less than the divine refusal of blood sacrifice, as well as any notion that suffering violence is or can be redemptive.” <br><br>Sounds interesting but it definitely is not Biblical. You would have to disregard most of the Old testament, Pauls writings, Peter’s writing, the Apostle John and the writer of Hebrews. I suppose you could hang on to the beatitudes. But then of course even Jesus talked about he that “eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” <br><br>"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake." 1st Peter 1:19<br><br>"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." Revelation 12:11<br><br>Hebrews 9:11 "When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."<br>"So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."<br><br>"God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

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