June 24, 2009
Both. Our family would cut services- high speed internet, cell phones, and other non-essentials. We could also live out of our freezer and grocery stockpile. Of course, we're not rich, so our tithe could easily be paid in this way. The way our family runs its finances, it would never come down to a choice between mortgage and tithe.
Well, my tithe is a non-negotiable part of my budget, so if I can't make the house payments I would have to start figuring out ways to trim expenses (which may mean selling the house).
I taught Evander's two youngest swim lessons at his house some 9 years ago. It is exorbitant! Two of my houses could fit in his pool! Evander's got other serious issues just besides his finances - he's got no money because he's paying child support to his entire harem of women! And you can't divorce Kreflo Dollar's prosperity teaching (Evander's "pastor") from his financial mismanagement. He's only ever been taught that giving to the Church is a means of acquiring wealth unto himself. If I believed that lie, it would be a no-brainer. I'd forsake my responsibilities and give all my money to the Church, too.<br>-msatty
He should not given beyond 10% unless his debts were paid otherwise it really is a poor testimony.
The honest answer is, I would pay my mortgage first. But, I don't particularly tithe either. I give more when I have income than when I don't, I don't expect recognition for either one, nor do I expect a neat little statement for the IRS (I take the standard deduction). IF I ever have a mortgage, it will be a tiny little cottage, so if I have to make that choice, I will be in significant distress. I do think that churches who teach "tithing" have taken it totally out of its Jewish context. Nothing wrong with it, but its not an essential element of being a Christian.
Lucky your family has not been affected by the current economy. We too at one point thought "it would never come down to a choice between mortgage and tithe." Our living was made in the building industry. The building industry died and our income was cut, we're now making 1/3 of what we were. Savings have gone to paying monthly bills, we live a conservative life...even before all this...some things you just can't plan for. I hope your lucky and right and you never have to make this choice. Sometimes it comes down to actions that we cannot control, no matter how well one runs their finances.
To comment on the subject, I have to ponder this: If I pay my mortgage I'm obeying by taking responsibility for my debt. In tithe I believe He provides my every need and HE will bless us. On a subconscious level would I then be expecting the blessing, in a sense paying for a blessing and no longer doing it out of love but out of a sense of "I'll do this so you'll do this for me?" I would hope my heart is purer than that...but your mind and heart can sometimes deceive each other.
For me, tithe is a portion of the first fruits - it comes out before anything else, including tax, mortgage, food, electricity, etc, etc.
That is a challenging one!As a steward I am using as a disscusion tool!
Randy Alcorn actually addressed this topic very recently, and well! Check him out:<br><a href="http://randyalcorn.blogspot.com/2009/06/question-and-answer-paying-down-debt.html" rel="nofollow">http://randyalcorn.blogspot.co...</a>
Anything more than 10% is an offering.
I believe in giving to the poor. I believe in supporting missionaries and contributing to salaries of full time pastors. I'm just not sure about tithing. How come tithing is never practiced in the New Testament? We never hear of Peter or Paul or James teaching about giving 10%. If the practice is that important it seems like they would teach on it. I know on special occasions one-time collections were taken for Jerusalemâ€™s poor and giving to the poor was practiced, but there was never any obligation to tithe, especially if one could barely take care of their family. In the old testament the tithe was food, not money, and farmers were supposed to eat their own tithe and share it with friends, neighbors and levites once a year at a big festival. Then once every 3 years a tithe of food was given into the storehouse for Levites who had no farms.
Tithe first because you can't beat God giving.
It is Godâ€™s REQUIREMENT of the children of Israel (Gen.49:28) to tithe a tenth part (Nu.18:26, Neh.10:38, Matt.23:23, Lk.11:42, Lk.18:12).<br><br>The church of God (1 Cor.10:32, the living body of Christ Jesus - Col.1:24), whom Jesus has made â€œfreeâ€ (Jn.8:36), are not under a REQUIREMENT, but are the â€œcheerful giverâ€ as the giver has purposed in his own heart (2 Cor.9:7-8).<br><br><br>Patricia Â© Bible Prophecy on the Web<br>
Wow, hard question. Honestly, I would probably cut back on my tithe to make my mortgage payment, but not completely neglect giving to the church.
Give what you can in many ways, not just in dollars. You time, talents, gifts and other things that can help the church and the people in the church. Grow a garden and give the food to those in the church that may need it. God doesn't count the gift, but the giver and he loves us no matter what we do. In God's Grace John
aren't we robbing God of his money by being in debt? We may think we are robbing God by not tithing, but why rob Peter to pay Paul? Giving the <a href="http://churchtithesandofferings.com/" rel="nofollow" title="tithe">tithe</a> does not relinquish how our poor stewardship and debt is robbing God anyway.
Tithes first, no questions asked. If I can't drop by church as soon as the pay arrives, I just make sure there's enough left for Sunday. It is God who gives us the ability to produce wealth anyway :)
We tend to think that we â€œgoâ€ to church. We GO to church, and we come home FROM church. But the truth of the matter is that we who are in Christ Jesus ARE the church (1 Cor.10:32).
It should never be about the money, how much or how little. God asks us to tithe to demonstrate both our love for God and to give him an opportunity to show his love for us. <br><br>If your child was hungry would you feed him or her before paying a debt. Of course you would, because you love your child. How much more does God love us!<br><br>If you look at the example of the early church ( 2 Cor 8 vs14) the church supported each other,. For this to work every church member would have had to be comfortable enough to disclose their current situation without the fear of being judged by others. A quick read of many of these comments reveals that we have lost something very precious. Stop judging people, leave that to God he is far more qualified, and in stead look for ways that God can use you to bring a ray of hope into someoneâ€™s life. Search out someone who his hurting financially and give them an envelope full of cash, a gift, no strings attached. All you need to say is â€œIsnâ€™t God greatâ€. The look on their face will give you more joy than paying off your mortgage or buying a new sports car.<br><br>If we all did that the world would be a far greater place and those who donâ€™t know God that way they could will see something that is worth giving up everything they have for.<br>
In the early church, all goods were held in common, and given to each according to need. Therefore, tithing was not an issue, just as it is not an issue in communal religious cultures such as the Bruderhof today. Tithing came into use by the Roman church as a feudal practice to support the hierarchy, for which they found some convenient Old Testament analogs. (Tithing in Jewish tradition is, to this day, a practice concerning the agricultural produce of the land of Israel). Tithing entered the Protestant tradition because the enormous funds which provided "livings" for Roman priests were not available, so the minister had to depend on the generosity of the congregation -- often this was in-kind contributions of pigs, chickers, fresh baked bread, vegetables, etc., since the faithful didn't always have money. Naturally, in a money economy, the Protestant minister includes some teaching about tithes, although once again removed from its Scriptural context.
With the old testament mandate of "bring your first fruits", then the new testament mandate(by Jesus no less), "give Caeser what is Caeser's, God's what is God's", there shouldn't be much to doubt or wonder in this topic. Malachi 3 starting w vs 6 through 13, has God's feelings on the non-tither. Particularly vs 8 "...you say...will man rob God?Yet you are robbing me.But you say'how have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions." I know it's a touchy subject that, me personally, grappled with for years. However, 2 years ago I heard a message(6 part) at my church on the stewardship of what God has given to us. The tithe was briefly discussed, but it entailed ALL we have been given by our Creator, and what we choose to do with those things He has entrusted us with. I made the decision that I wanted to be found faithful in this area as well as others. Didn't do it for a return, didn't do it for "sowing a seed", did it out of obedience. I'm in sales, when I chose to obey the economy was great. Now it needs no affirmation of the current state, however, I've seen God's faithfulness through this horrible economic period. He has shown me in Whom I've chosen to believe in. God bless
I agree with John. Tithing goes far beyond just dropping a check into the plate on Sunday. If you have a talent in anything, that talent is a gift to you from God. Don't just use it to glorify yourself. Use it to glorify Him also. I don't make a lot of money but I have just as many hours in a day as the wealthiest person. I try to give as much of my time as possible to God by volunteering in my church. If we all gave 10% of our time to God's work, we would each spend 16.8 hours a week in His service. That is real stewardship and it IS what God wants of us.
What is the root of tithing. <br>It seems that nowadays it is a way of funding the local church.<br>That is not what was commanded when tithing was set up. <br>OT tithing was a way of expressing God's goodness and provision. It was a portion of the excess that was to be collected and then offered at the place of God ( became Jerusalem) and was to fund a feast for the whole family and friends and even strangers present, to be eaten by the tither, with the command not to forget the Levites. God even said that he would look after the owners property while he was away celebrating the feast. Every three years the tithe was to be given to the Levites. It was never an instruction to fund the Levites living annually, although the Levites were allowed to live off the tithes and offerings.<br>Church funding is a separate issue and comes from 'free-will offerings' the very heart of a free-will offering is one of willing giving that pleases God. Tithing was primarily an inward focussed thing between God and the tithing family, culminating in a journey to the designated area/ temple and an extended family feast glorifying God and his provision.<br><br>The Levites are gone and we are all priests. Laymen and clergy are organisers of meetings together, church services etc, feeding the sheep and providing an essential service in maintaining a general place of mass worship. Meeting together was considered an essential part of the walk. <br>If we agree with this then we agree to maintain this and so if we have the means we then have the obligation to fund it. But move away from tithing and call it what it is , an offering.
giving both is neccessary.for God says tiths open windows of heaven onto those who give them .
The new testament church taught "giving" and not "tithing" which is part of the law instituted at the time of Moses.<br>Unfortunately many have been swayed by the teaching of tithing because they do not study the Word of God for themselves as the Berean's did!
Perhaps the right answer is to budget and make good financial decisions. A skilled financial planner could readily help this celebrity come up with a saving and spending plan that could fit his income. I would not be surprised if he also had a tax debt.
This letter is in reference to tithing and dept. there are two issues here.<br>1) tithing- often guoted from Malici. But.. the Lord also stated that if you have anything against your brother leave your offering at the alter and address the human relationship. Do one but don't leave the other undone. Tithing is of the heart. Where your treasure is, there is where your heart is. Give to God what He ahs given you. But to over do it can be just as irresponcible as none at all.<br>2) responcibility- what do you want your money to do. If you want to fellowship by the river in the snow, then don't support your building fund. If you feel that people that are poor are that way due to irresponcibility then don't give to the poor. God allows the sun to shine on the ppor and wealthy. If don't fear the reprisals of not listening to Him then do what you think is right. He says trust me and I will fullfill your needs. Remember "God is no threat to me"-trust Him<br>Being responsible in the Kingdoms is not the same as being responcible in the world, too much worldliness is in the daily practises of christians using the excuse that their testimonies require it. This is just another way of justifying doing what you really want to do and not following His word.
I don't see the problem. If I make 100, God gives me 90 to live on and order me to bring 10, the part that belongs to him. If my income is 1/3 today, the Lord wants as a tithe only 10% of the new income and if He permits the business produce no income at all for a while, the tithe is just 0. He never asks something that doesn't belong to him. I have been in the same situation sometimes. Normally the trouble comes when we make business with the money that belongs to him. We must live and enjoy only our 90%....much bigger than 10% It's important to remember all the wonderful blessings that comes with our obedience..so it doesn't hurt much
Peter, did you study Matthew 23:23 23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesâ€”mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawâ€”justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, WITOUTH NEGLECTING THE FORMER. (WITHOUT LEAVING THE OTHERS UNDONE NKJ). And these are Jesus words for us christians. So both have to be done
tithing of the fruit of my labours.... If I am a farmer that is simple, I can bring to the temple 10 percent of my grain, ah, but we are not in those days are we.... What if I am unemployed? What do I base my tithe on? My unemployment? My welfare cheque? Is that the fruit of my labours? What about my labours themselves? Are they not worth anything to the Lord? I believe that someone who cannot afford to financially afford to sponsor the church as his conscience dictates can also tithe through his labours as in terms of modern society our labours tend to equal our worth, right or wrong. I find so often all these debates among Christians are done by those of us that they least affect. If Jesus was here would he be hanging out with you and me? Or the woman at the well?
What people seem to miss is that the tithe was created to benefit the POOR and those that could not grow their own food. It was food. It was meant to be EATEN BY THE TITHER and shared with neighbors and the Levites who couldn't farmâ€“ONCE A YEARâ€“at the feast of Tabernacles. <br><br>The tithe was not given to the Temple to improve the building, pay for outreaches or pay everyones salary. Freewill offerings of money, gold and silver were collected to pay for the temple. This was not a pre-money society. Malachi was written to the Levites and priests. God was saying there was no FOOD in the house. The priests were also only sacrificing the diseased animals. Once every 3 years the Israelite FARMERS (not carpenters, metalsmiths or tradesmen) tithed 10% of their harvest food to the Levites who then gave 10% to the priests...all people without farms. When Jesus said to the Pharisees "You give a tenth of your spicesâ€”mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawâ€”justice, mercy and faithfulness" do you get the fact that they were tithing food? He was speaking to people under the law (you have neglected more important matters of the law). The veil was ripped in two when Jesus was crucified, we are no longer under the law. Read Galatians. But if you really insist that you want to be under the law, then give food once a year to the poor. No one tithed in the early church for several hundred years. Freewill offerings were taken for famine relief in Jerusalem and some even sold all to contribute to the poor. The tithe was re-instituited in the Holy Roman Empire in the 8th century and made law as a kind of tax...which it never was in the Old testament. The Orthodox church refused to pay it. God may ask you to give 6%, 20%, or 90% (that is strictly between you and the Lord) and I believe we are obligated to contribute towards missionaries and evangelists (apostles) and help the poor. But let's not penalize those that can least afford it with a rigid, onerous tax.
Hi,<br>I want to start off by saying I'm not Christian. I also don't want any backlash for it. I just came across this while reading CNN. I would just like to add my thoughts, and Please do not argue, one website I responsed to just as a question won't stop and I reported them to CNN. I'm just saying what I would do and asking if my though would be considered wrong and why. Now if I had to choose between my mortgage, the roof over my head and giving a Tithe. I would have to say I would pay the mortgage and would hope my church and fellow members would understand. Then once I get back on my feet continue to pay my tithe. I would think that would be the best thing for me if I was in that situation.
Hi All,<br>Thank you for your positive comments. This is what I expect out of good True Christians. Like I said in my comment I response to another site and was back lashed so much I reported them. All of you answered my question and my opinion with good positive feedback and I appreciate that.<br><br>Thanks again.
Wow. These tithe teacher got you trick. A bet they would never give up their house and luxuries. The prosperity teachers want you to do what they are not willing to do. You will never see them give up their mansion, expensive cars, electronics, vacations so they can continue to tithe. And why should they, you are making them rich anyway.
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